Mar 12 2010
Thank Lieberman & McCain For This: YOU Can End Up In Military Prison Indefinitely
A bill introduced by Sens. John McCain and Joseph Lieberman, entitled The “Enemy Belligerent, Interrogation, Detention, and Prosecution Act of 2010,” would allow the U.S. military to indefinitely detain U.S. citizens without trial or legal representation on the suspicion that they may pose a threat to the government.
Note the word, “suspicion”. Just by suspicion alone.
Well, I suspect they’re screwing us.
This means anyone. Any US citizen, for as long as they want, no questions asked. Just like that, you can become a detainee. So, how do you feel about torture now? Do you still advocate it?
Senator John McCain could have been our President. I am not saying, I told you so. I am saying, watch out. This man has been a prisoner of war and he should be the last person on Earth to do this.
You can read this bill here or excepts here to cut through the crap. By the way, where was the President when this quietly passed without notice?
Senator Lieberman, he’s out for himself. Both sides of the aisle know this already if they’re being honest with themselves.
How could he?! When some in the right wing call President Obama a fascist, perhaps they ought to rethink they’re stance on that:
This is the legislation that we have been predicting for many years. This is the evidence that a major goal of the phony war on terror has always been to criminalize ordinary US citizens and effectively remove the last vestiges of freedom of speech and even thought. This is the evidence that Americans today are living in a covertly fascist regime.
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Detain USA citizens indefinitely on suspicion? Isn’t there such a thing as Habeas Corpus in this country’s legal system?
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Anomaly100 Reply:
March 12th, 2010 at 9:37 pm
@Paul: Not anymore. Apparently, it’s not patriotic. Habeas Corpus is now a secret liberal agenda.
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When I watched the video clip I was concerned by what was implied by the two liberal commentators so I went and read the actual bill.
The bill applies to those engaged in “terrorist acts of war” against the US whether you are here in the US, it’s territories or any other Country. If you engage in an act of War against the US, then you lose your rights as a citizen. You can be locked up and interrogated by the Military for as long as necessary. This is nothing new. It is standard procedure during wartime.
Even the most rabid left wing or right wing extremist government hater would not be locked up as long as they were not planning or engaging in an Act Of War against the US. Let’s say that you buy a very large amount of fertilizer and diesel fuel and they intercept an email about blowing up a Federal building – then it becomes a potential act of war and the military takes over. They are not going to be pulling people off the street who speak out against the government as long as they do not make any threats of violence. If you are one of the dirtbag US Citizents that goes over to Pakistan to train with Al Queda and they find out about it – then you can forget about your rights as a US Citizen. I think it just tightens up security on US Citizens abroad and here in the US that are engaging in or plotting with terrorist to do harm to us. Just a couple of days ago we locked up “Jihad Jane” who was plotting with Al-Queda around the world. As far as I am concerned, she has no rights. Let the military handle it.
I remember similar liberal paranoia over the Patriot Act. Everyone had visions of Karl Rove and George Bush in a back room secretely listening in on everyone’s phone conversations when the NSA has actually been monitoring phone, email, cell phone etc for many years under both Republican and Democratic administrations. They have supercomputers that sift through all the data and pick out snippets of conversations with the word “bomb” etc.
You could use the same argument to say that DUI checkpoints are targeting otherwise innocent citizens. If you are driving and you are not drunk, then you should have no problem stopping for a chat with the cops. If you are drunk, then they are going to breathalyze you with one of Obama’s asthma inhalers and lock you up if you fail.
So do not worry Comrade Anomaly. You could post the communist manifesto on your blog and nobody would bother you. We still have freedom of speech.
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Anomaly100 Reply:
March 13th, 2010 at 1:45 pm
@Rebel: Perhaps you should review it. You can be detained for dissent. For mere suspicion. Hey, it was just a warning. I wonder what you’d say if President Obama quietly passed this?
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@ Anomaly: I am going to read it again. Please don’t be wasting my time with this. I want to see where it says you can be arrested for dissent.
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Anomaly100 Reply:
March 13th, 2010 at 4:30 pm
@Rebel: I believe someone answered your question far better than I could. See: @Freeman’s comment. Do people eating lunch and being detained count?
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@ Anomaly: It doesn’t say anything about beign arressted for “dissent”. Go back and read the criteria for “underprivileged detainee” and show me where it says you can lose your rights for “dissent” You have to be engaged in, captured during or planning an attack against the U.S. You lose your Miranda rights, but you are still treated according to the rules of the Geneva convention.
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Rebel, you’re so hopelessly clueless. A typical “conservative” coward willing to give up his rights for the promise of “safety”.
You can talk all you want about how they’re not going to use it for this or that, not going after civilians etc, but the very wording gives them the power to do just that, so your argument is plainly false. There is nothing more to say, your “opinion” on the subject is meaningless drivel, facts are facts and you are wrong. End of discussion.
Conservatives are all about “reduced government” so they continually say, but continue to support anti-American legislation like this to empower the government even more. Hypocrite cowards all of them.
You’re either free with a right to privacy and your own possessions or you’re not. There is no middle ground. And this should never be compromised under the deludedly cowardly lie of “safety”.
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Oh, and Rebel, the US government already rounded up and detained people in New York during the 2004 GOP summit, they literally blocked off streets and arrested everyone on the street including working people just out for lunch and held them for days without charged – all because the “patriot” act of cowardly BS gave them the power to do so.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Republican_National_Convention_protest_activity
Get your head out of your ass and wake up.
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@ freeman : Sigh, deep breath, exhale. I don’t have the energy to deal with flakeslikes you right now. I’m going to take a break and I will respond. It is fair game now as you have personally attacked me calling me a “coward”. I try to be nice and I am attacked. @ Anomaly: I know you libs are all about being fair. I am going to read this cretin’s link and I willl respond appropriately.
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Rebel, your defense of this bill is sadly naive, and indicates a foolish level of faith in the bona fides and honesty of government agents.
It doesn’t matter that this bill says it only applies to people who engaged in terrorist acts of war, because in practice, all it will take to get you detained forever is for a cop or federal agent to CLAIM you were engaged in a terrorist act of war. It doesn’t have to be true, because the whole purpose of this bill is to make it unnecessary for the government to prove that you actually committed any terrorist act. You’ll have no oppoturnity to prove that you’re innocent. So of COURSE this bill will be used to suppress dissent, because any time the FBI decides it doesn’t like a particular dissenter or dissent group, it just has to say they were conspiring to commit a terrorist act of war — lying if necessary — and that’s all it will take to lock them up indefinitely with no chance for release. And believe me, cops and feds lie their asses off when it suits their purposes.
When you conservative lunkheads say stuff like “terrorists have no rights,” it shows that you don’t understand the purpose of the rights that have been taken away from detainees. These rights aren’t prizes or rewards that we get for being American citizens, to make us feel good. They’re rules that work together to ensure that an accused bad guy really is a bad guy before the government is allowed to lock him up or execute him. So statements like “terrorists have no rights” are non-sensical, because we can’t know if someone really was a terrorist if we’ve taken away all their due process rights.
Lawrence Wilkerson says most of the people we sent to Guantanamo were innocent, and he would know. It goes to show that just because the government claims someone is a terrorist doesn’t make it so.
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@ Freeman: I read the link. BFD, the people were arrested for disorderly conduct. Their arrest had nothing to do with the Patriot Act. The “Enemy Belligerent, Interrogation, Detention, and Prosecution Act of 2010″ applies to Acts of War against the US – not protesters.”
If you get arrested for dissent, or protesting you have full rights. A couple of hours in jail and a fine and you are back on the street. Go back and read the criteria in the bill on page 8. It very clearly defines who is a an “Enemy Belligerent”.
I don’t really see where the bill changes anything anyway. In wartime, the only rights you get are the Geneva convention. Nothing has changed with this bill, they are just trying to define what exactly an enemy belligerent is – to set some guidelines as it were. If you are a terrorist here in the US or anywhere else and you blow up a US government building – it’s off to Gitmo for you and it’s up to the military to decide when and if you are released.
This is really a no brainer. You are so paranoid. Don’t worry Freeman, the government doesn’t care what you do in the privacy of your home as long as you are not hurting anyone.
It is for that reason that the mainstream media has barely even mentioned this bill. It is just the left wing screwballs who are complaining about it.
As for me being a coward, you name the place and the time and we shall see who the coward is. I’m certainly not afraid of dealing with a liberal pussy like you.
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@STM The lucky patrons at club Gitmo were captured in the field of battle. It’s nobody’s business but the military to decide when they are released. Sadly, a few have been released and have already engaged in new terrorist attacks against the US.
Judging by the standard of living in Afghanistan, these detainees are living better than they would back home with nice comftorable living accomodations and delicious muslim food. They have it much better than they would in the US prison system.
As for :
“Lawrence Wilkerson says most of the people we sent to Guantanamo were innocent, and he would know”
Why don’t we play a little game called facts and figures. I want you to prove where 51% of the detainees were innocent. Says who? The detainees? Who the hell is Lawrence Wilkerson? Go ahead now and you prove to me that 51% (most) are/were innocent. I’m waiting…………………………..
Now there you go again calling me names. See what happens when you liberals are defeated with logic, reason & the “truth”? Like a bunch of spoiled little brats all you can do is call people names.
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And no “dissent” is not a crime in this country. You cannot get arrested for protesting. The cops have to set some guidelines for security purposes and you can get arrested for disorderly conduct or disturbing the peace etc. but not for Protest.
I’m thinking maybe they should make an exception for Hillary Clinton. Her shrill voice gives me a headache. I would like to see her arrested and muzzled for a while. I’m sure Bubba would be cool with that too.
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Are You Scheduled For Government Interrogation If Senate bill 3081 Is Passed?
On March 4, 2010, Sen. John McCain introduced S. 3081, The “Enemy Belligerent Interrogation, Detention, and Prosecution Act of 2010.”
Under S.3081, an “individual” need only be Suspected by Government of “suspicious activity” or “supporting hostilities” to be dragged off and held indefinitely in Military Custody. Government will have the power to detain and interrogate any individual without probable cause. Government need only allege an individual in detention, is an Unprivileged Enemy Belligerent suspected of; having engaged in hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners; or has purposefully and materially supported hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners. The obvious question: how does one prove to Government they did not purposely do something? Definition for Unprivileged Enemy Belligerent: (Anyone Subject to a Military Commission)
At least under the Patriot Act, law enforcement generally needed probable cause to detain a person indefinitely. Passage of S.3081 will use mere suspicion to curtail an individual’s Constitutional Protections against unlawful arrest, detention and interrogation without benefit of legal counsel and trial. According to S.3081 Government is not required to provide detained individuals U.S. Miranda Warnings or even an attorney.
Similar to fascist laws in other countries, S.3081 if passed will frighten Americans from speaking out. S.3081 is so broadly written, it appears any “individual” who writes on the Internet or verbally express an opinion against U.S. Government or its coalition partners might potentially be detained on the basis he or she is an “unprivileged enemy belligerent”, “supporting hostilities against U.S. Government.”
See McCain Senate bill S.3081:
http://assets.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/politics/ARM10090.pdf
FYI: below is enclosed a copy of “Hitler’s Discriminatory Decrees signed February 28, 1933.” Although the Nazi Decrees are written differently than S.3081 they bring America to the same place trashing free speech and personal liberty. Note how the Nazi Government similar to U.S. S.3081 has in Section (1) and (4) suspended personal liberty and shutdown Free Speech, to intimidate Citizens speaking out against Government:
See Section 1
“Sections 114, 115, 117, 118, 123, 124, and 153 of the Constitution of the German Reich are suspended until further notice. Thus, restrictions on personal liberty, on the right of free expression of opinion, including freedom of the press, on the right of assembly and the right of association, and violations of the privacy of postal, telegraphic, and telephonic communications, and warrants for house-searches, orders for confiscations as well as restrictions on property, are also permissible beyond the legal limits otherwise prescribed.”
Similar to McCain’s S. 3081, but using different wording the Nazi Government in Section (4) see below, suspended Constitutional rights ordering the arrest of Citizens for any Act that might incite or provoke disobedience against state authorities. McCain’s S. 3081 instead mentions detaining and prosecuting Individuals for “supporting hostilities” against U.S. Government. S.3081 is so broadly written anti-war protesters might be arrested and detained just for attending demonstrations.
See Section 4
Whoever provokes, or appeals for or incites to the disobedience of the orders given out by the supreme state authorities or the authorities subject to then for the execution of this decree, or the orders given by the Reich Government according to Section 2, is punishable—insofar as the deed, is not covered by the decree with more severe punishment and with imprisonment of not less that one month, or with a fine from 150 up to 15,000 Reichsmarks.
Some members in the Obama Government appear bent on curtailing Citizens’ rights especially Free Speech and Opinions. In the run up to Sen. McCain’s introduced S. 3081, it was reported Top Obama Czar Cass Sunstein Proposed Infiltrating all ‘Conspiracy Theorists’ in a paper prepared in 2008—that apparently expressed: Government should infiltrate and spy on Americans, their groups and organizations to obstruct Free Speech, disrupt the exchange of ideas and disseminate false information to neutralize Americans that might question government. See news story: http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=121884
Also in 2008 perhaps coincidence: “The Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act”, was introduced by Rep. Jane Harman. The bill appeared to mirror a number of Czar Cass Sunstein’s spying proposals on lawful Citizens and interrupting groups without evidence of wrongdoing. Harman’s bill called for investigating and tracking Americans and groups that might be prone to supporting or committing violent acts of domestic terrorism. Harman’s bill had the potential of driving lawful political and other activists underground. Perhaps creating the domestic terrorists Bush II said Americans needed to be protected from. Rep. Harman’s “Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act” when closely examined, defined “homegrown terrorism” as “any planned act” that might use force to coerce U.S. Government or its people to promote or accomplish a “political or social objective.” No actual force need occur. Government would only need to allege an individual or group thought about it. Rep. Harman’s bill was often called the “Thought Crime Bill.”
McCain’s S.3081 like Harman’s bill, mentions “non-violent acts” supporting terrorism in the U.S. and or emanating from America against a foreign government or “U.S. ally.” “Non-violent terrorist acts” are covered in the Patriot Act to prosecute Persons that support “coercion to influence a government or intimidation to affect a civilian population.” However U.S. activists and individuals under S.3081 would be much more vulnerable to prosecution, being (charged with suspicion) of “intentionally providing support to an Act of Terrorism”, for example American activists cannot control what other activists might do illegally they network with domestically and overseas. Under the Patriot Act, law enforcement generally needs probable cause to detain or prosecute someone. But under S.3081, law enforcement and the military can too easily use “hearsay” or informants to allege “suspicious activity” to detain an individual. Since 9/11 federal government established across the nation a large number of Fusion Centers. Fusion Centers were originally established to improve the sharing of anti-terrorism intelligence among different state, local and federal law enforcement agencies. (But since expanded to pursue all crimes and hazards); considering that, it is problematic under S.3081 that detained individuals not involved in terrorism or hostile activities, not given Miranda Warnings or allowed legal counsel will be prosecuted for ordinary crimes because of their alleged admissions while in military custody.
Fusion Centers now pursue for analysis not just criminal and terrorist information, but any information that can be derived from police, public records and private sector data about Americans. Fusion Centers increasingly involve components of the U.S. Military in addition to other government entities to spy on Citizens. “The centers heavily rely on local “informants” for information that is shared with Local, State, and Federal police agencies.); historically it is foreseeable under S.3081 erroneous informant information will be used under S.3081 to detain innocent Individuals. Other governments have used lying informants to imprison their political opposition. Recently the Department of Homeland Security began sharing more classified Military information with local Fusion Centers, perhaps a mistake, not all local police keep secrets.
Fusion Centers circumvent Fourth Amendment Constitutional protections that prohibit illegal search and seizure, by taking advantage of ambiguous lines of authority to manipulate differences in federal, state and local laws to maximize information collection. Increasingly (private security companies and their operatives) work so closely with local/federal law enforcement and Fusion Centers—providing and exchanging information about Americans, they appear to merge with police. That is what happened in Germany during the 1930’s when a private-Gestapo merged its operations with German Federal Police. Subsequently Germany in 1939 placed all German Police agencies including the Gestapo under the control of the “Reich Main Security Office” the equivalent of U.S. Homeland Security. Notably, McCain’s S.3081 mandates merging Federal, State and local police and subsequently the U.S. Military to detain and hold Individuals in the U.S., even without probable cause. Interestingly a Rand Report prepared for the Army, recently made public, appears to suggest that U.S. Government develop a Local, State and Federal U.S. “National Police Stabilization Force merging State law enforcement with the Feds. What would happen to State Rights and what laws and Jurisdiction would be used to charge state Citizens arrested by a National Police Stabilization Force? A National Police Force could potentially be sent by the President into any State with the approval of its governor, against the wishes of its Citizens? To clarify the Rand Corporation report visit:
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=122533
It should be expected under S.3081 that government would use an individual’s phone call and email information to allege without probable cause “suspicious or hostile activity.” It does not appear U.S. Government will slow down wiretapping Citizens’ electronic communications. Just recently Pres. Obama’s signed Executive Order EO 12425 that put INTERPOL above the United States Constitution. Obama’s Executive Order authorized INTERPOL to act within the United States without being subject to 4th Amendment Search and Seizure laws. It would appear INTERPOL may now tap American phones and emails without a warrant. And that U.S. Police can use INTERPOL to circumvent the Fourth Amendment to arrest Americans and or forfeit their property by bringing INTERPOL into a criminal or civil investigation. Government can too easily take an innocent person’s hastily written email, fax or phone call out of context to allege a crime or violation was committed to cause an arrest or Civil asset forfeiture.
DECREE OF THE REICH PRESIDENT FOR THE PROTECTION OF
THE PEOPLE AND STATE
Note: Based on translations by State Department, National Socialism, 1942 PP. 215-17, and Pollak, J.K., and Heneman, H.J., The Hitler Decrees, (1934), pp. 10-11.7
In virtue of Section 48 (2) of the German Constitution, the following is decreed as a defensive measure against Communist acts of Violence, endangering the state:
Section 1
Sections 114, 115, 117, 118, 123, 124, and 153 of the Constitution of the German Reich are suspended until further notice. Thus, restrictions on personal liberty, on the right of free expression of opinion, including freedom of the press, on the right of assembly and the right of association, and violations of the privacy of postal, telegraphic, and telephonic communications, and warrants for house-searches, orders for confiscations as well as restrictions on property, are also permissible beyond the legal limits otherwise prescribed.
Section 2
If in a state the measures necessary for the restoration of public security and order are not taken, the Reich Government may temporarily take over the powers of the highest state authority.
Section 4
Whoever provokes, or appeals for or incites to the disobedience of the orders given out by the supreme state authorities or the authorities subject to then for the execution of this decree, or the orders given by the Reich Government according to Section 2, is punishable—insofar as the deed, is not covered by the decree with more severe punishment and with imprisonment of not less that one month, or with a fine from 150 up to 15,000 Reichsmarks.
Who ever endangers human life by violating Section 1, is to be punished by sentence to a penitentiary, under mitigating circumstances with imprisonment of not less than six months and, when violation causes the death of a person, with death, under mitigating circumstances with a penitentiary sentence of not less that two years. In addition the sentence my include confiscation of property.
Whoever provokes an inciter to or act contrary to public welfare is to be punished with a penitentiary sentence, under mitigating circumstances, with imprisonment of not less than three months.
Section 5
The crimes which under the Criminal Code are punishable with penitentiary for life are to be punished with death: i.e., in Sections 81 (high treason), 229 (poisoning), 306 (arson), 311 (explosion), 312 (floods), 315, paragraph 2 (damage to railroad properties, 324 (general poisoning).
Insofar as a more severe punishment has not been previously provided for, the following are punishable with death or with life imprisonment or with imprisonment not to exceed 15 years:
1. Anyone who undertakes to kill the Reich President or a member or a commissioner of the Reich Government or of a state government, or provokes to such a killing, or agrees to commit it, or accepts such an offer, or conspires with another for such a murder;
2. Anyone who under Section 115 (2) of the Criminal Code (serious rioting) or of Section 125 (2) of the Criminal Code (serious disturbance of the peace) commits the act with arms or cooperates consciously and intentionally with an armed person;
3. Anyone who commits a kidnapping under Section 239 of the Criminal with the intention of making use of the kidnapped person as a hostage in the political struggle.
Section 6
This decree enters in force on the day of its promulgation.
Reich President
Reich Chancellor
Reich Minister of the Interior
Reich Minister of Justice
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Anomaly100 Reply:
March 15th, 2010 at 9:49 pm
@Dan: Thank you so much! Now that would make a great post. I just need to invent more hours in my day.
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@ Dan: Did you read the bill? It is only 12 pages long. Of course they can pick you up and interrogate you if you are suspected of terrorist activity. That is an act of War. The President has the right to send our fighter jets over to Somalia to bomb aspirin factories without probable cause. That is the same thing. It’s not a civil or a crimminal defense matter. You don’t need to read these people their Miranda rights.
If you are sending emails or putting up web sites that talk about blowing up buildings – then yes they can pick you up and interrogate you without rights. I am fine with that. It’s the same as if you are living in a hut in the desert in Afghanistan and plotting terrorist acts against the US and we come over and bomb you. I’m fine with that.
As for your Hitler rant, dude you need to go out and get a job. You have way to much time on your hands. If you are that worried about how this bill is going to affect your life then you are either a terrorist worried about losing his rights or you are not taking your medications.
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We had better stop commenting on this. The NSA supercomputers are going to pick up all this chatter about “terrorist”, “bombs” and “Hitler” and Anomaly is going to get a knock on the door in the middle of the night.
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Has anyone asked Sarah Palin why she is supporting Sen. McCain’s campaign after he just introduced the “Enemy Belligerent Interrogation, Detention, and Prosecution Act of 2010” Possibly the most Tyrannical Bill in Modern U.S. History?
Do Tea Party participants believe they will be spared from this Fascist Legislation? Consider history. Hitler blamed the burning of the German Parliament building on the Communists to invoke his 1933 Discriminatory Decrees that suspended free speech, the right to association and dissent. Hitler not only used the new laws to go after communists but anyone that Hitler deemed undesirable or dared question the Reich fascist state. Perhaps Tea Party participants haven’t made the connection how McCain’s bill if passed could ultimately be used against them.
Ask Sarah Palin if she supports McCain’s Indefinite Detention Bill.
If McCain wins his election in Arizona next November thanks to the help of Palin, there is a greater chance McCain’s Belligerent S.3081 will be passed.
Government too easily can use McCain’s bill S.3081 to arbitrarily disappear Americans—without probable cause. Your political opinions and past statements made against U.S. Government could in the future under S.3081 be used by Government Authorities to deem you a “hostile” “Enemy Belligerent” to cause your arrest and indefinite detention.
See McCain Senate bill S.3081 at:
assets.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/politics/ARM10090.pdf
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Brainwashed american folks,
“the government doesn’t care what you do in the privacy of
your own home” …… Sure about that? Read former major
David Moorehouse’s book ‘Psychic Warriors’. He was in the
original pilot program where the CIA AND U.S. special division
trained him and others in RV (remote viewing). It got so nasty
both Moorehouse and the group instructor considered going
public with disturbing revelations with exactly what was going
on. Both were threatened with death for them as well as their
families! If I’m not mistaken government agents can enter
your home, seize your computer hard drive if there is suspicion
that you have sedicious material contained in it!
Something to look into especially Moorehouse’s book.
EDT
Chicago, Illinois
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